[K4RY] Rules question
Carey Huff
chuff at hoarllc.com
Tue Oct 7 12:49:43 CDT 2008
Thought I would share my setup.
Lots of stuff packed in the plane. Included a repeater consisting of
separate receive and transmit radios connected with a VOX unit. Had a
single band pass can on the output. 2m used for comms and APRS as well.
Antennas were 2 2m ground planes, one on the top of the vertical
stabilizer and one on the side of the plane. A 70cm was placed on the
bottom of the plane. All were held on with lots of high speed tape!
One of dad's requirements was that I kept a pair of dykes within easy
reach to cut the coax in the event that something came loose and was
flapping about.
The plane is an experimental, so we don't have to follow the rule John
mentions about having the FAA approve the mounting of the antennas. You
are correct John, this is VERY expensive to do IF you can get it at all.
Dad said from his experience, they won't permit any modifications
without extensive amounts of paperwork. Usually, you have to know the
right people to get it signed off on at all.
The two antennas in the foreground are aircraft band. I think one is
Comms and the other is for the Emergency Locating Transmitter (crash
beacon).
Thanks,
Carey
Desk: 205-423-2389
Cell: 205-451-8997
-----Original Message-----
From: John Klingelhoeffer [mailto:WB4LNM at AOL.COM <mailto:WB4LNM at AOL.COM>
]
Sent: Monday, October 06, 2008 6:32 PM
To: 'William Capps'; K4RY at eng.auburn.edu; Carey Huff
Subject: RE: [K4RY] Rules question
Importance: Low
Bill;
Interesting to hear your experience with an aero mobile ham. I think I
can count the fingers on one hand how many times I've QSO'ed with an
aero mobile ham since 1968. One of the high points was back in the
1970's when I spoke with the president of CBS, Bill Leonard, W2SKE (SK),
who was an active ham and he was aero mobile from the east coast to the
west coast. This was on two meter FM.
My understanding is that technically, the FAA or its representative
needs to approve the mounting of an (amateur) antenna on the outside of
the fuselage of an aircraft. That cost and effort probably limits a lot
of people from making a permanent change to their general aviation
aircraft. Who knows what that costs?
Having an antenna at 8000 feet is probably a great thing if one is a VHF
operator, although I have heard that the cacophony of repeaters is
deafening. Operation on simplex is just about a necessity on two
meters. I guess that antennas for operation on HF are just as much of a
challenge, if not more so, than on my boat here on Lake Martin.
You will have to show me Good Old Boys sometime. I am not familiar with
where that is although I was a student at AU from 71-75.
73
John...
WB4LNM
-----Original Message-----
From: k4ry-bounces at mailman.eng.auburn.edu
[mailto:k4ry-bounces at mailman.eng.auburn.edu
<mailto:k4ry-bounces at mailman.eng.auburn.edu> ] On Behalf Of William
Capps
Sent: Monday, October 06, 2008 8:57 AM
To: K4RY at eng.auburn.edu; Carey Huff
Subject: Re: [K4RY] Rules question
Hello Everyone,
For what it is worth, I have made several qso's with a /aeronautical
mobile ham here in auburn on the 2 meter fm simplex frequency. I used to
monitor the simplex frequency when I had a radio in my auto. He would
call CQ simplex and I could easily talk to him. The aero ham had some
kind of single seat high performance airplane and he would fly from
basically Fort Walton Beach Florida to La Grange, Ga and back again to
keep his flying license active. He had a permanently mounted radio and
antenna and I am sure he was 50 watts. We always had good qso's crystal
clear. Onetrip/qso I made with him, I drove out to Sand Hill road on the
south side of town. There is a large hill just east of Good Old Boy's. I
was surprised to find out I could talk to him all the way to florida and
only lost him when he began to drop in altitude to begin his landing at
the air field.
73
Bill AF4OD
>>> "Carey Huff" <chuff at hoarllc.com> 10/3/2008 11:39 PM >>>
Ahhhhh, that's what I was looking for.
On first glance, the broadcasting thing was what I was worried about.
I looked that one up and was able to satisfy myself that I would not be
broadcasting. Seeing as Dad is not the "General Public" and I would
have a specific intended audience.
I was hoping that this would fall under cross band comms, but since
cross service is explicitly disallowed, looks like I am out of luck.
The basis of the discussion is this - We have tried air to ground on 2m
and didn't have much luck. There was so much noise that we were pretty
unintelligible. Not sure why. I tapped into the intercom system and
fed the mic input of the radio with a tap. Sounded fine on the ground.
I was able to make one QSO with a random HAM on our flight home. We
were in deep south GA and using the Cheaha repeater to talk to a guy in
Anniston. It was quite a ride. Every time I was ready to transmit, Dad
pulled the throttle to idle and we would glide till I went back to
receive mode, he'd hit the gas and we would climb back up. :) The
plane is pretty loud on the inside.
I have a nice set of Motorola FRS units, I'll have to give those a try
and see if they work.
I appreciate the input from everyone. I got several notes off list.
Don't worry John, I'm not going to do anything to endanger my license!!
73,
AI4TZ
________________________________
From: John Klingelhoeffer [mailto:WB4LNM at AOL.COM <mailto:WB4LNM at AOL.COM>
]
Sent: Fri 10/3/2008 8:29 PM
To: Carey Huff; K4RY at eng.auburn.edu
Subject: RE: [K4RY] Rules question
Absolutely not, Carey;
>From the FCC part 97's point of view, you would be communicating with
someone on another service, which is only allowed in emergencies and
specially authorized tests, such as the annual MARS cross band (actually
cross-service) test.
Two options are: 1) have him get an amateur radio license (not hard
anymore since there is no code test) or 2) use FRS. If you are close
enough to use the low power setting on your HT, then FRS's half-watt
power should be ok. I was a bit concerned by aeronautical mobile
operation of FRS at first, but it is specifically approved by 47CFR95.
See paragraph a4 below.
The FRS radios have a great range of prices. Get one of the better
ones >$60 for better performance. The $20 units are pretty lousy.
Don't endanger your ham license by trying the one way thing. It's
clearly illegal.
Regs follow. 73 John... WB4LNM
[Code of Federal Regulations]
[Title 47, Volume 5]
[Revised as of October 1, 2007]
>From the U.S. Government Printing Office via GPO Access
[CITE: 47CFR95.192]
[Page 534-535]
TITLE 47--TELECOMMUNICATION
CHAPTER I--FEDERAL COMMUNICATIONS COMMISSION (CONTINUED)
PART 95_PERSONAL RADIO SERVICES--Table of Contents
Subpart B_Family Radio Service (FRS)
Sec. 95.192 (FRS Rule 2) Authorized locations.
(a) Provided that you comply with these rules, you are authorized to
operate an FRS unit:
(1) Within or over any area of the world where radio services are
regulated by the FCC (this area includes the fifty United States and the
District of Columbia, the Commonwealth of Puerto Rico, the United States
Virgin Islands (50 islets and cays), American Samoa (seven islands), the
Commonwealth of Northern Marianna Islands, and Guam Island);
(2) Within or over any other area of the world, except within or
over the territorial limits of areas where radio services are regulated
by an agency of the United States other than the FCC or any foreign
government (you are subject to its rules);
(3) Aboard any vessel or aircraft registered in the United States,
with the permission of the captain, that is within or over any area of
the world where radio services are regulated by the FCC or upon or over
international waters;
(4) or; Aboard any unregistered vessel or aircraft owned or operated
by a United States citizen or company that is within or over any area of
the world where radio services are regulated by the FCC or upon or over
international waters.
(5) You must operate the FRS unit only according to any applicable
treaty to which the United States is a party. The FCC will make public
notice of any such conditions.
(b)-(c) [Reserved]
(d) Anyone intending to operate an FRS unit on the islands of Puerto
Rico, Desecheo, Mona, Vieques, and Culebra in a manner that could pose
an interference threat to the Arecibo Observatory, shall notify the
Interference Office, Arecibo Observatory, HC3 Box 53995, Arecibo, Puerto
Rico 00612, in writing or electronically, of the location of the unit.
Operators may wish to consult interference guidelines, which will be
provided by Cornell University. Operators who choose to transmit
information electronically should e-mail to: prcz at naic.edu.
(1) The notification to the Interference Office, Arecibo Observatory
shall be made 45 days prior to commencing operation of the unit. The
notification shall state the geographical coordinates of the unit.
(2) After receipt of such notifications, the Commission will allow
the Arecibo Observatory a period of 20 days for comments or objections.
The operator will be required to make reasonable efforts in order to
resolve or mitigate any potential interference problem with the Arecibo
Observatory. If the Commission determines that an operator has satisfied
its responsibility to make reasonable efforts to protect the Observatory
from interference, the unit may be allowed to operate.
[61 FR 28768, June 6, 1996, as amended at 62 FR 55535, Oct. 27, 1997;
63
FR 68976, Dec. 14, 1998; 70 FR 31374, June 1, 2005]
________________________________
From: k4ry-bounces at mailman.eng.auburn.edu
[mailto:k4ry-bounces at mailman.eng.auburn.edu
<mailto:k4ry-bounces at mailman.eng.auburn.edu> ] On Behalf Of Carey Huff
Sent: Friday, October 03, 2008 7:36 AM
To: K4RY at eng.auburn.edu
Subject: [K4RY] Rules question
I need to be able to communicate with dad from the ground while he is
flying overhead. He isn't licensed, so can't transmit on our bands. I
don't have a radio that will transmit on airbands.
I could easily connect my scanner into his 'aux in' port on his intercom
system and let him hear me. And I could set one side of my radio to
receive him on his AM airband.
Is this within the rules? I would only be transmitting on the lowest
power setting my HT has as he will always be in close proximity to me.
We are using him as a search plane to find downed rockets and it would
make it much easier to have communications.
Carey L. Huff
Project Engineer
Hoar Construction, LLC
Two Metroplex Drive, Suite 400
Birmingham, AL 35209
Desk: 205-423-2389
Cell: 205-451-8997
Fax: 205-423-2323
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