[K4RY] Rules question

Mon Oct 6 08:56:45 CDT 2008

Hello Everyone,
    For what it is worth, I have made several qso's with a
/aeronautical mobile ham here in auburn on the 2 meter fm simplex
frequency. I used to monitor the simplex frequency when I had a radio in
my auto. He would call CQ simplex and I could easily talk to him. The
aero ham had some kind of single seat high performance airplane and he
would fly from basically Fort Walton Beach Florida to La Grange, Ga and
back again to keep his flying license active. He had a permanently
mounted radio and antenna and I am sure he was 50 watts. We always had
good qso's crystal clear. Onetrip/qso I made with him, I drove out to
Sand Hill road on the south side of town. There is a large hill just
east of Good Old Boy's. I was surprised to find out I could talk to him
all the way to florida and only lost him when he began to drop in
altitude to begin his landing at the air field.

73 
Bill  AF4OD

>>> "Carey Huff" <chuff at hoarllc.com> 10/3/2008 11:39 PM >>>
Ahhhhh, that's what I was looking for.  

On first glance, the broadcasting thing was what I was worried about. 
I looked that one up and was able to satisfy myself that I would not be
broadcasting.  Seeing as Dad is not the "General Public" and I would
have a specific intended audience.  

I was hoping that this would fall under cross band comms, but since
cross service is explicitly disallowed, looks like I am out of luck. 

The basis of the discussion is this - We have tried air to ground on 2m
and didn't have much luck.  There was so much noise that we were pretty
unintelligible.  Not sure why.  I tapped into the intercom system and
fed the mic input of the radio with a tap.  Sounded fine on the ground. 
I was able to make one QSO with a random HAM on our flight home.  We
were in deep south GA and using the Cheaha repeater to talk to a guy in
Anniston.  It was quite a ride.  Every time I was ready to transmit, Dad
pulled the throttle to idle and we would glide till I went back to
receive mode, he'd hit the gas and we would climb back up.  :)   The
plane is pretty loud on the inside.  

I have a nice set of Motorola FRS units, I'll have to give those a try
and see if they work.  

I appreciate the input from everyone.  I got several notes off list. 
Don't worry John, I'm not going to do anything to endanger my license!!

73, 

AI4TZ

________________________________

From: John Klingelhoeffer [mailto:WB4LNM at AOL.COM] 
Sent: Fri 10/3/2008 8:29 PM
To: Carey Huff; K4RY at eng.auburn.edu 
Subject: RE: [K4RY] Rules question

Absolutely not, Carey;

>From the FCC part 97's point of view, you would be communicating with
someone on another service, which is only allowed in emergencies and
specially authorized tests, such as the annual MARS cross band (actually
cross-service) test.

Two options are:  1)  have him get an amateur radio license (not hard
anymore since there is no code test) or 2) use FRS.  If you are close
enough to use the low power setting on your HT, then FRS's half-watt
power should be ok.  I was a bit concerned by aeronautical mobile
operation of FRS at first, but it is specifically approved by 47CFR95. 
See paragraph a4 below.

The FRS radios have a great range of prices.  Get one of the better
ones >$60 for better performance.  The $20 units are pretty lousy.   

Don't endanger your ham license by trying the one way thing.   It's
clearly illegal.  

Regs follow.  73   John...   WB4LNM

[Code of Federal Regulations]
[Title 47, Volume 5]
[Revised as of October 1, 2007]
>From the U.S. Government Printing Office via GPO Access
[CITE: 47CFR95.192]

[Page 534-535]

                       TITLE 47--TELECOMMUNICATION

        CHAPTER I--FEDERAL COMMUNICATIONS COMMISSION (CONTINUED)

PART 95_PERSONAL RADIO SERVICES--Table of Contents

                  Subpart B_Family Radio Service (FRS)

Sec. 95.192  (FRS Rule 2) Authorized locations.

    (a) Provided that you comply with these rules, you are authorized
to 
operate an FRS unit:
    (1) Within or over any area of the world where radio services are 
regulated by the FCC (this area includes the fifty United States and
the 
District of Columbia, the Commonwealth of Puerto Rico, the United
States 
Virgin Islands (50 islets and cays), American Samoa (seven islands),
the 
Commonwealth of Northern Marianna Islands, and Guam Island);
    (2) Within or over any other area of the world, except within or 
over the territorial limits of areas where radio services are regulated

by an agency of the United States other than the FCC or any foreign 
government (you are subject to its rules);
    (3) Aboard any vessel or aircraft registered in the United States,

with the permission of the captain, that is within or over any area of

the world where radio services are regulated by the FCC or upon or over

international waters;
    (4) or; Aboard any unregistered vessel or aircraft owned or
operated 
by a United States citizen or company that is within or over any area
of 
the world where radio services are regulated by the FCC or upon or over

international waters.
    (5) You must operate the FRS unit only according to any applicable

treaty to which the United States is a party. The FCC will make public

notice of any such conditions.
    (b)-(c) [Reserved]
    (d) Anyone intending to operate an FRS unit on the islands of
Puerto 
Rico, Desecheo, Mona, Vieques, and Culebra in a manner that could pose

an interference threat to the Arecibo Observatory, shall notify the 
Interference Office, Arecibo Observatory, HC3 Box 53995, Arecibo,
Puerto 
Rico 00612, in
writing or electronically, of the location of the unit. Operators may 
wish to consult interference guidelines, which will be provided by 
Cornell University. Operators who choose to transmit information 
electronically should e-mail to: prcz at naic.edu.
    (1) The notification to the Interference Office, Arecibo
Observatory 
shall be made 45 days prior to commencing operation of the unit. The 
notification shall state the geographical coordinates of the unit.
    (2) After receipt of such notifications, the Commission will allow

the Arecibo Observatory a period of 20 days for comments or objections.

The operator will be required to make reasonable efforts in order to 
resolve or mitigate any potential interference problem with the Arecibo

Observatory. If the Commission determines that an operator has
satisfied 
its responsibility to make reasonable efforts to protect the
Observatory 
from interference, the unit may be allowed to operate.

[61 FR 28768, June 6, 1996, as amended at 62 FR 55535, Oct. 27, 1997;
63 
FR 68976, Dec. 14, 1998; 70 FR 31374, June 1, 2005]

________________________________

From: k4ry-bounces at mailman.eng.auburn.edu
[mailto:k4ry-bounces at mailman.eng.auburn.edu] On Behalf Of Carey Huff
Sent: Friday, October 03, 2008 7:36 AM
To: K4RY at eng.auburn.edu 
Subject: [K4RY] Rules question

I need to be able to communicate with dad from the ground while he is
flying overhead.  He isn't licensed, so can't transmit on our bands.  I
don't have a radio that will transmit on airbands.  

I could easily connect my scanner into his 'aux in' port on his
intercom system and let him hear me.  And I could set one side of my
radio to receive him on his AM airband.  

Is this within the rules?  I would only be transmitting on the lowest
power setting my HT has as he will always be in close proximity to me. 
We are using him as a search plane to find downed rockets and it would
make it much easier to have communications.  

Carey L. Huff

Project Engineer

Hoar Construction, LLC

Two Metroplex Drive, Suite 400

Birmingham, AL 35209

Desk: 205-423-2389

Cell: 205-451-8997

Fax: 205-423-2323

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